Slashdot visitors, there are newer and relevant posts HOWTO tweet to China, a web map of Beijing lonely Olympics websites, two internet manhunts, and a really bad idea for a Tibet-China dialogue ad campaign. Also, you might want to check out some classics like these flash movies of Chinese internet cops who patrol major websites, dildos advertised on Communist Party websites and debunking BS bad reporting on Chinese hackers.
As news of the turmoil in Tibet reaches Chinese netizens, reactions on Chinese Twitter-clones Fanfou.com and Jiwai.de are mostly of astonishment according to a search on Twifan. Meanwhile, on Twitter, whose users are mostly from other countries, reactions are less surprised, according to Tweet Scan. Again, I’m not a pro translator, so by all means, send corrections. [Thanks wgj, twice, but I’m keeping “underdog” cuz I like it; thx kdobson]
ＴＡＮ 大家现在知道拉萨的新闻吗 [Everybody now know the news on Tibet?]
乱云/Akay 不知道拉萨今天的情况怎样了，哎。[Don’t know how the situation is in Lhasa today, whats going on?]
sprife 拉萨暴动，很担心！[Tibetan rebellion, really worried!]
李清扬cherry 达赖集团在拉萨策划骚乱活动 [Dalai Clique scheme behind Lhasa riots]
effie 拉萨到底怎么了？？？[So what’s the deal with Lhasa???]
kaixintao07 香港流感，西藏骚乱…… [Hong Kong Flu, Tibet riot… …]
虫仔 拉萨·西藏，台北·台湾：中国永远的刀痕。[Lhasa Tibet, Taipei Taiwan: China’s eternal scars.]
zbright 惊愕，西藏出现动乱 [holy crap, Tibet in turmoil]
Zola 支持西藏人民的抗争。[supports Tibetan People to stand up and fight.]
兽兽 拉萨情况不明朗，朋友的弟弟在拉萨旅游仍没有消息。今早BBC请西藏问题学者分析此次骚乱，他不认为是达赖策划的；而且与20年前相比，发生藏人攻击汉人和回人的事件，这还是第一次。他批评了北京谈判策略上的失误：拖延时间，等达赖去世。可是现在除了宗教问题，又出现了种族和发展的新问题。
[Lhasa situation unclear. Still no news from friend’s younger brother in Lhasa on tour. This morning the BBC asked an expert on the Tibet problem to analyze this disturbance, he doesn’t believe its a plot by the Dalai Lama; moreover, unlike the riots 20 years ago, for the first time Han and Hui people have been attacked. He criticized Beijing for poor negotiation tactics: for too long, simply waiting for the Dalai Lama to die. But now besides the religious problem, there emerges new problems related to ethnicity and development.]
vinwolf 西藏 应该定性为恐怖袭击？[Tibet should be classified as a terrorist attack?]
无名 西藏这帮秃驴居然敢在两会期间制造不合谐因素。[Tibet’s bald weasels dare not to conform to a harmonious society during the Two Congresses.]
Qiushi 西藏喇嘛示威咯～给奥运会和两会的礼物 [Tibetan Lama demonstrators give Olympics and Two Congresses a present]
jobirn.com 据拉萨前方(在西藏旅游的朋友)发来的报道: 今天拉萨大暴乱 我刚刚逃回宾馆 我们已开始躲在一个藏民家里 他说几十年没有看到过这么严重的了 杀人,烧车 …
[From the Tibetan Front (a touring friend in Lhasa) comes this report: today in Lhasa huge riots I just fled the guesthouse We’re hiding out with a Tibetan family He says in all his years he’s never seen anything this serious – killings, burning cars…]
meadow 弱势群体永远正确吗？何况还不知道谁是弱者呢？在南昌读书那会，本地人说附近有个中学有西藏学生，经常打汉人学生，家长去投诉，学校劝家长息事宁人，因为从老师到学校到教育局到地方领导，对他们都是“迁就”。说这个的同学是汉人
[Is the underdog always right? While at university in Nanchang, local people said that a local high school has Tibetan students who regularly beat up Han students, parents complain, school administrators said not to cause a fuss, because from teachers to the school to the education bureau to local leadership, the watchword is “accomodation”. It was a Han student who told me this story]
Meanwhile, this is what’s being tweeted in English on Twitter:
atosdps : When can you show us the real Tibet, my violent government!!!
quanmengli : Reading: “(可怜的美国佛教徒) Actor Gere calls for Olympics boycott if China mishandles Tibet – Yahoo! News”
lonniehodge : My professor friends in schools in regions around Tibet called into emergency meetings and warned of internal pro-independence spies
wwwdotjenna : wow, tibet. the world is watching.
thijsjacobs : @sioksiok everyone tweeting about Tibet = Twitter soon to be blocked.
squidlord : Oh, goodie, Tibet is in political upheaval again. Maybe they’ll kill enough people to get things straightened out, one way or another.
borekv : thinking about Tibet and also remembering Tiananmen Square Massacre http://tinyurl.com/2sa7o8
Watching the build up to the Olympics has been, for me, like watching the world’s biggest, slowest traffic accident. For a while now its been pretty obvious that alot of contentious issues about China were going to come to the front as we approach August 8th, but the problem is that there are two completely separate parallel worlds on these issues: the Chinese one, and the rest of us. Westerners have been exposed to rhetoric and information about Tibetan discontent, Darfur’s international and Chinese dimensions, and of course old chestnuts like Tiananmen provide a larger context of long term, ongoing problems. Meanwhile, Chinese mainlanders by and large have no knowledge of these events or issues. While for the rest of the world the Olympics will be largely a referendum on China’s ability to deal with what everyone else has talked about for years, for Chinese citizens it will be about China winning a beauty pageant of sorts.
Two Worlds, Two Dreams: prepare for the SchizOlympics.
Note: Chinese blogger Beifeng was relaying SMSes from a friend in Lhasa, but since only one message about the military headed to Jokhang Temple, there have been no further updates.
“定性”: “characterize”, “categorize”, “classify” are all better than “consider”
“杀人”: “killing” and not “murder” — which would be a special kind of killing (and would be “谋杀” in Chinese)
“秃驴”: what the heck are “useful idiots”? I’d suggest direct translation, i. e. “bald weasels”
“unexpectedly dare not to conform to a harmonious society”? That’s not only quite different from the original, it’s simply awkward English — almost reminding me of the Xinhua English regularly ridiculed by Beijing Newsspeak and co. Unless of course this satirical mistranslation is on purpose, in which case it’s quite funny indeed.
A faithful translation would be “dare to create disharmonious factors” (without “unexpectedly”).
“弱势群体”: “under-privileged groups” or simply “minorities”, not “underdog”
“在南昌读书那会”: “When I was going to school/university in Nanchang”, and nothing to do with “book clubs”
“说这个的同学是汉人”: “It was a Han student who told me this story”
“Westerners have been exposed to rhetoric and information about Tibetan discontent, Darfur’s international and Chinese dimensions”
Really? Westerners have certainly been exposed to a lot of rhetoric about Tibet (“evil China is killing the Tibetans and Tibetan culture”), what information are you referring to? Darfur’s “Chinese dimensions”? Since when has anybody from the western media mentioned the Chinese dimensions and perspectives? It has always been the “evil, oil-crazed Chinese sponsoring genocide in Darfur”.
Chinese propaganda, western propaganda, what’s the difference? The difference is people tend to detect and dismiss the former easily while wholeheartedly accepting the latter as the absolute truth.
“Pour gas on the fire”?
My chinese isn’t great either, but I think 息事宁人 means the opposite, to calm things down, not cause trouble. The school/teachers asked urged parents to calm down about it.
see http://cy.5156edu.com/showcy.php?id=11468
for a definition
Dalai Lama told BBC news that “There will be more deaths in Tibet,unless Beijing changed it’s policies towards Tibet”.
Osama Bin Laden threatened US by saying “there will be more deaths, unless Washington changes it’s policies towards Mideast”.
Sounds similar?
pffefer, you are absolutely right. The poor Chinese don’t have an anti-defamation PR machine in the West to defend themselves.
Did any y’all blog about a recent major cultural genocide milestone in America?
http://news.google.com/news?q=last+native+Eyak+speaker+died
I didn’t fine one Tibet blogger devoted to the Eyak language/culture disappearing story with any sort of parity.
Anonymous and Fletcher are PRC “United Front” agents. The Dalai Lama (thank you so much for not using that irritating “Dalai” abbreviation) is and will be the force for peace in the region. You guys? Exactly the contrary. Simplicity itself.
“Bobby Fletcher” is obviously the same harassing commentor, Charles Liu, from here.
He really shouldn’t even try to pretend to compare the situation of the Tibetans with the First Nations/Indians/”Native Americans”. Nor should he expect that Tibetans should care about us. We haven’t been doing a lot lately, after all.
Therese, you are exactly right about the two names being used by the same person. His job (and he’s not the only one) is precisely to screw with our minds, and bend discussions of the issues to the PRC govt’s purposes. (He’s a Taiwanese who long ago converted.) He especially likes to call anyone who objects to PRC policies an anti-Chinese (people, not government) racist. Thereby ‘flipping’ what may very well be (and often is) a real concern for the welfare of the Chinese people into an expression of racism. Nice trick, huh! Failing that, they just say things that set your mind in the wrong grooves in other ways, by bringing up silly arguments they know are stupid, just to engage us in stupid arguments that will lead away from confronting the real issues. I really despise those guys. And I despise them because they are destroying China and the Chinese people. (For the moment, we won’t even talk about what they are doing for Tibet)
I am a westerner – British to be exact. However, I think that there is a vast misunderstanding of the amount of propaganda from all sides. I watched “A year in Tibet”, and intend to read more. I do not think the Monks are all the “goodness and light” that the western media would like you to think. After all, before the 1950’s, regularly beating children into reading scripture and enslavement to the upper monastic orders until learned enough to become a child beater yourself was basically the way. This does not sound like a peaceful or pleasant existence. The Chinese government are not handling it well, and should not be so forceful, but on the other hand, they are dragging Tibet into the 21st century, with Monastic beatings replaced by real schooling and prospects of university, replacing scratching in the dirt with a services industry, replacing witch doctors and nonsense with real medical centres and decent systems to protect crops, and providing other services like rails, road, real justice and equality. To the monks, this must be a grossly unwelcome challenge to the superiority that they had enjoyed for thousands of years must be deeply disturbing, but I am not sure that they deserved that superiority in the first place. Through following this issue, I have become more aware of dishonest or uninformed reporting in the Western Media. While I abhor the suppression of media that is mostly prevalent in China, I have seen that 21cn, a Chinese new site, is carrying the stories the western media have told me that no one in China sees. I can only see the pictures – I cannot read the text.
I am beginning (it took me time to get here, from initially going for the “look after the little guy stance) to see that the issue is a heck of a lot more complex, a lot less black and white than people see, and before supporting the protesters, and equally before slamming the beeb and CNN, people should all start to try and read more, see more. If you have Chinese friends, speak to them about it, if you can, go read “A year in Tibet” and similar literature. But stop accepting what the media are telling you – regardless of which side you are on. Find out for yourself.
hi im english, and i think all this uproar over tibet by the western media is just politicallly motivated. Most of the tabloid reading public here are so uneducated that they just believe what is written in these so called ‘newspapers’. America are running scared over Chinas power, and our government and media are just puppets of the americans. I think China should bann the Uk and USA from coming to China for the olympics, now that would be funny!
yeah dazza, that’d be a scream. 300million angry americans and 75 million angry brits…..the chinese really would have something to worry about
I heard a chinese actress on NPR comparing tibet to hawaii – please! Hawaii isnt exactly pining to be free, is it? Ignorance on the part of propogandized chinese people is a greater threat than the Tibetans wanting to be free. Ignorance leads to war.
@ dazza
“hi im english”
No, you’re not. You’re a commie propagandist, aren’t you?
“秃驴”: derogatory term monks, because of their shaved heads.
bob, if u do the maths, I think 1.4 billion angry chinese is something that the 300 million americans and 75 million brits should worry about =P
Regarding the Chinese actress comment, well, maybe she just wanted the Americans to know that giving up Tibet for the Chinese people is like giving up Hawaii for the Americans, so that the Americans could understand why is it so hard for the Chinese to let go. *maybe*
Although I agree with you that she shouldn’t compare it with Hawaii and how I shouldn’t compare it with East Timor =P
Spectacular, *I totally agree*. I think no country has perfect histories to start with, so maybe we should mind our country’s own business and introspect our own countries before we judge other countries and also of course listen to what real Tibetans have got to say about their land. I’m not 100% sure every Tibetans want to be free. Although I might be incorrect. *peace*
Every government is an evil.
“Spectacular, *I totally agree*. I think no country has perfect histories to start with, so maybe we should mind our country’s own business and introspect our own countries before we judge other countries and also of course listen to what real Tibetans have got to say about their land. I’m not 100% sure every Tibetans want to be free. Although I might be incorrect. *peace*”
Your comment is idiocy. China will be made to play by our rules or we become irrelevant and they become the power of the world….you dont want that unless your chinese. Even if your chinese i dare say you dont want that. China is STILL a tyrrany, dont let the factories fool you…their people are AFRAID to speak out against the government and any government that is not for the people is deserving of being toppled.
Anyone that wants to placate a country that will abort womens fetuses by force can suck me. If you want your state propaganda go live in china and quit trying to f up the rest of the world with that mental filth.
“bob, if u do the maths, I think 1.4 billion angry chinese is something that the 300 million americans and 75 million brits should worry about =P”
only for about 14 minutes…
Wow so many communist party ppl here. 310 million americans by the way, also we americans arent scared by chinas “massive power” so much as we are scared by the increasing power of supercorporations like walmart that are gaining control of america through the aid of chinese slave workers. i say slave workers because believe it or not the reason prices are so low on goods is because the chinese work for near slave wages. also countering idiotic things like “native oppression in america” we are actually making progress on bringing our native peoples back to their cultures, even if its only slight. also 1.4 billion angry chinese arent so much of a threat when you realize we americans have ballistic missile capabilities the tiny communist party lacks. and finally and as randomly as the rest Great America, that is nations that at least have a minority english speakers and have been influenced heavily by american influence in the past adds at least a hundred and fifty million people to the already existing american populace of 310 million. that is great america includes the phillipines, canada, liberia and perhaps cuba if we ever topple the developing mini-china there under raul castro.
The fact that the Chinese are providing services is not an excuse for killing.
Analogies can be found between what’d going on in China and American imperialism. American imperialism is wrong. It doesn’t excuse any other imperialism.
Condemn what’s wrong. Whoever does it.
hmmm you sounded very angry there bob with all the f word coming out *peace bob, peace* when u said “China will be made to play by our rules”, whose rules are you talking about? *just a quick question, would you be happy if your country is made to play by other countries’ rules?*
and if China is still a tyranny, why would Westerners want to invest in such country? and allow China to gain more power?
in my country, a lot of people are afraid to speak out too, according to you, then it should be toppled too, right? =)
abortion problem is a lot of countries problem too, it’s not only in China, it’s all about education, I think, not a state propaganda.
No set of rules is to apply for all. Each country works differently. Just like how each family is different. It’s all about respect. Everything good or bad in Chinese history contributed to its success today. And today she never intends to be the superpower but a co-existent world player in achieving a win-win situation. I think as Chinese, we all know that no matter what, humility and brotherhood are true assets of Chinese. Family means a lot to Chinese and so, China would like Tibet to unite with her and progress towards higher altitudes of success. Tibet is originally part of China in ancient times; the fight to gain independence would be a difficult process. If peace is really of concern and there should be no more bloodshed, Dalai Lama should reach out to his people to stop retaliating in violent means. Otherwise, I doubt whether he is merely serving his self-interests with the West or he genuinely recognizes true worth of humans’ lives. Peaceful and constructive negotiations should be initiated between Dalai Lama and the Chinese government in achieving a win-win situation.
well- this is really quite a conversation-
i think chinese side of this debate is really most concerned with face-
and the loss of face that would come from an olympics tinged by tibetan
protest.
one sees the fantastic architecture the chinese have bought – the amazing effort being made for china to take its rightful place as first world, and an acceptance of the laurel wreath from the birthplace of western culture- the (greek) olympics.
if something goes wrong well the chinese will have to blame someone, and perhaps reject that western mantle of greek ideals:
then yes, we should be afraid to 1.3 billion chinese!
i think the way to diffuse the situation is to talk to the dali lama- invite him to the olympics! give the tibetans some crumbs of respect, or maybe even rights to continue their heritage, and elect their own dali lama- while there is historical data that supports tibet being in federation with china- tibetan is a unique and individual culture that owes less to Han chinese culture than vice versa…
with respect and understanding,
peter
couldn’t agree more peter =)
about the near slave wages they’re getting there, I know this is starting to get Out of Topic, but from what I heard, it’s because overseas companies are giving the factories very low profit margin, so the factories have to do that to keep the factories going, and also when you think of it, it’s better to get low wages than not getting any wages at all (i.e. unemployed). maybe for the time being they get low wages, but the condition could still improve later on.
“Spectacular, *I totally agree*. I think no country has perfect histories to start with, so maybe we should mind our country’s own business and introspect our own countries before we judge other countries and also of course listen to what real Tibetans have got to say about their land. I’m not 100% sure every Tibetans want to be free. Although I might be incorrect. *peace*”
Hey Chinese Indonesian, You sounded rational when u said that we all need to know what the Tibetans need to say about “their” land. So first you admit that tibetans have their own land. It might have been a vassal state but not Chinese land. When independence freedom is desirable, I fail to understand why does China still in this 21st century is following this atittude of conquering other’s land ? Let everyone be in peace. Is China not a big country already ?
Next when you say , you are not sure that 100% of Tibetans wants to be free, you yourself accept that Tibetans have lost their freedom. How sad it is !!!!
You yourself acknowledge that Tibet has been conquered and it is not part of China and you are subjugating a race of people. Total Human Rights violation I would say, just on the basis of what you are saying. Is it believable that anyone wants to live a “non-free ” life ? Only when fear is a factor then people sometimes accept to live without freedom.
Come on , you have been invaded, plundered and been subjugated to slavery by the west, you know how it feels , Do you really want others to go through the same pain. That too at the hands of the Chinese.
It is a shame.
Typos
won –> own land
And sorry guys, I do not know how those web links and some grabge got copied in my post, If the admin can edit , it would be great.
Also, why do the western world invest in China. Ask your self, why does the western world invest in India ? Do the western people want China and India to become powerful ? Hell NO. They invest because they get a better ROI in those countries. Think Cheap labor !!!
Um… to all of the Chinese nationals here… don’t be fooled by what you see on T.V. Yeah there were some protests here in the U.S. about the Tibet issue among other things, but in all honesty most people don’t really care here. Not even slightly. Personally I don’t think you have anything to worry about on the Tibet issue. However, people here haven’t really liked or trusted the Chinese government for a while now (myself included) and the Olympics will not change that.
That’s not really as big of a problem as it sounds, though. People often protest the actions that the U.S. have taken recently and it has not really amounted to much so far. The nations of the world will likely continue to do business with China so long as it is not overly hostile and it shows an interest in being a part of the international community.
This, of course, leads me to my problem with China. There is this perception that western media is biased. This might be due to a lack of access to the nation. No one here knows anything about China because of how difficult it is to get accurate information about the country. The Chinese government releases a statement about the current situation and thats about all we get which makes people skeptical. When the protests in Tibet started media couldn’t get anywhere near the situation. How are they supposed to report on both sides of a story that they only have one side of? They merely passed on the information they had managed to gather which was then pounced on as being “anti-Chinese.”
It’s good to see this debate though. I’m learning a lot by following the situation.
no im not a ‘commie’
im an atheist!
Peterbill, well stated. Tibet and China have a long and complicated history. Gelug monks were once the principle tutors of the Chinese emperor. Buddhism is a very fast growing religion in the west and especially Tibetan Buddhism. So there is a lot of sensitivity towards Tibet from a very small but vocal group of people – ie Richard Gere. The riots were not started by the Dali Lama but from a group of younger monks who had decided that the Dali Lama’s non violent approach was not working and that a more aggressive stance was needed. I don’t believe the Dali Lama every advocated violence and has staunchly invited the Chinese to come view anything they wanted to prove it. It seems to me the solution could be: 1) Dali Lama step down as goverment leader of the Tibet in Exile government and disband such government. 2) China allow the Dali Lama to return with a start at the Olympics (sitting by the President would be a nice show friendship). 3) Return as religious leader to Tibet and China to allow more freedom for Buddhism to flourish there. The Dali Lama admitted to knowing that his form of theocracy was outdated but that the Tibetan people were reluctance to modernize. The Chinese invasion by Chairman Mao was poorly executed and the behavior of the Gang of 4 summarily condemned by China itself. The treatment of monks and nuns was a abhorrent. China seems to have tried to do right by Tibet but also has made some questionable decisions with the “encouraged” influx of the Hahn Chinese. Tibet could and should be a principle jewel in China’s crown with its amazing beauty
and yes Buddhist temples which someday I would love to visit. Potabala palace was designated one of the new 7 wonders of the world. I hope and pray that a peaceful beneficial solution is found soon. (And no the Olympics torch run should not be a place of protest against and shame on those who have)
gasho
I think that protesting the Olympics is not the correct way to achieve anything. In this spirit, I have posted a funny picture of the Dalai Lama, (titled the “Jolly Lama”, like a Jolly Roger flag) on my site, http://gamesmathcove.blogspot.com
I think that protesting the Olympics is not the correct way to achieve anything. In this spirit, I have posted a funny picture of the Dalai Lama, (titled the “Jolly Lama”, like a Jolly Roger flag) on my site, gamesmathcove.blogspot.com
@ guy:
“Um… to all of the Chinese nationals here… don’t be fooled by what you see on T.V. Yeah there were some protests here in the U.S. about the Tibet issue among other things, but in all honesty most people don’t really care here.”
Don’t be fooled by silence. Americans may not be turning out for protests, but with a new distaste for bad China products and practices, they would be more likely to vote for anti-China, pro-reality politicians and buy products made anywhere but in bad China.